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Q: I've had unvented gas
logs for about five years. Same room, same fireplace. I re-lit the pilot light
this fall. It burned fine. The next day we noticed the pilot light was off. I
shut them off, the pilot light stayed on. For a few minutes. What
can be causing this?
A: The pilot on a
vent free is part of the ODS assembly. Yours is just dirty. Take a
can of compressed air and blow the dust out. The pilot must be OFF.
The ODS is where the pilot flame comes out. Go to the back of the ODS, you
will see one or two holes, blow the compressed air in there. Then blow
down the barrel of the ODS.
Q: What building code groups
permit the installation of listed vent free gas products?
A: National Fire Protection Association
(NFPA-54), Building Officials and Code Administrators (BOCA), Southern Building
Code Congress International (SBCCI), Council of American Building Officials
(CABO), Both the International Mechanical Code (IMC) and International Fuel Gas
Code (IFGC) permit the installation of listed and labeled vent free gas products
and specify that the product be used as a supplemental heating source. Answer
provided by the Vent-Free Products Alliance Brochure - 2002.
Q: How does vent free gas logs
affect indoor air quality?
A: Safe Indoor Air Quality. Extensive
independent testing has verified that vent free gas appliances meet or exceed
the nationally recognized guidelines for indoor air quality, even for the
sensitive populations, such as children, pregnant women, and the elderly.
Vent free products are tested by independent appliance testing laboratories to
assure they comply with ANSI Z21.11.2, a standard established under the auspices
of the American National Standards Institute. This standard is maintained
by a committee whose members include utilities, manufacturers, government
agencies, code officials, and consultants. The committee has removed from
the standard all language concerning sensitive populations because of vent free
products' excellent health and safety record over the past twenty years.
Answer provided by the Vent-Free Products Alliance Brochure - 2002.
Assertion: There are
concerns about Carbon Monoxide (CO) emissions from vent-free appliances,
especially in households with children, pregnant women, and elderly people.
Fact: The effects of vent-free products'
emissions on sensitive populations were tested in the extensive independent
study. This research used as its criteria the recommended maximum levels
of CO as set by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), with sensitive
populations - such as children, pregnant women and the elderly - as the
benchmark. The results of the research proved that vent-free gas heating
products preformed well within the CPSC guidelines for Carbon Monoxide and all
other indoor air quality guidelines by OHSA, NIOSH and ASHRAE. Fact
provided by the Vent-Free Products Alliance Brochure - 2002.
Assertion: There is
nothing to prevent a thrifty homeowner from using a vent-free gas heater as a
sold heat source.
Fact: Surprisingly, there are homeowners who
improperly use even their cooking ranges as a sole heat source. The fact
is, consumers must be informed on how to use any new gas appliance in the
home. All major building codes categorize vent-free products for
supplemental use and require that a primary source of heat (e.g., a furnace) be
present in the home before a vent-free product can be installed. It is
clearly stated in the operating instructions of every vent-free appliance that
vent-free gas products are only to be used for supplemental heating. Fact
provided by the Vent-Free Products Alliance Brochure - 2002.
Assertion: If a customer buys a
vent-free gas appliance, it is necessary to purchase a quality Carbon Monoxide
detector as well.
Fact: All homes, whether their energy source
is electric, gas, wood, or oil, should have a listed Carbon Monoxide (CO)
detector. Primary sources of CO concern are automobiles, indoor grilling
on hibachis, and gas appliances that have not been properly maintained.
The independent research study on vent-free products concluded after extensive
testing that CO emissions from vent-free gas products are well within nationally
recognized indoor air quality guidelines, even for sensitive populations.
Fact provided by the Vent-Free Products Alliance Brochure - 2002.
Assertion: Ceiling fans should
not be installed in rooms with vent-free fireplaces.
Fact: Ceiling fans may be used to help
distribute heat, however, fans should not be allowed to blow directly into the
fireplace to avoid drafts that alter burner flame patterns, which can result in
sooting. Fact provided by the Vent-Free Products Alliance Brochure - 2002.
Q: Do vent free gas appliances
produce water?
A: Some people may be surprised to learn
that vent-free appliances produce water. This occurs naturally by burning
a combination of gas and air. The water is in the form of a vapor rather
than a liquid. You can't see it with your eyes. During cold months
of the year, the relative humidity - the percentage of water vapor in the air -
is low. You've probably experienced a scratchy throat caused by the
dryness inside a home during the winter. Health studies have shown that
increasing the indoor relative humidity results in a reduction of respiratory
illnesses. AHAM, the trade association for the humidifier industry,
recommends a 60% indoor relative humidity. Answer provided by the
Vent-Free Products Alliance Brochure - 2002.
Q:
We
would like to purchase a set of non-vented firelogs to use with
our Heatilator fireplace insert. What we need to know is: a. Can
the non-vented firelogs be used with a Heatilator insert? We have
gotten conflicting information on whether this is safe to do or
not.
A:
The
question is due to the terminology. A "Heatilator" is a
masonry fireplace form with an open front. An "insert"
is a wood burning stove inserted into a fireplace. It has air
tight doors and could pose an explosion hazard if gas logs were
used. If you have an open front fireplace, capable of burning
wood, you can use vented gas logs. The Heatilator company does not allow vent
free gas logs in their prefab fireplaces.
Q: We are on a
Propane fuel system. What brands and models of gas logs would you
recommend?
A: All of
mine are fine for propane. Be sure to specify when ordering so
the right gas valve and burner will be ordered. You must use the
safety pilot option on propane (LP) gas.
Q:
If
I buy a vent-free set of gas logs in the ceramic fiber material,
can I add some fiber looking embers and pinecones, etc. at my
discretion. Or if I have an old set can I place an old log just
on the hearth floor for added realism?
A: You
cannot alter or add to the log set in any way. To do so could
cause carbon monoxide. These type of materials can be used around
the outside of the log set for decoration, but not on the set.
Q:
Are
the unvented gas fireplaces safe? We are planning a new home and
they certainly look attractive but I just feel very uncomfortable
not venting combustion products. Besides the safety factor, I
would appreciate other comments on how well they work, etc. I
really want a wood stove (we had one 20 years ago) but my wife
doesn't like the mess. I have to admit that the convenience of
gas (over wood) sure makes them look attractive.
A: All of
the vent free fireplaces meet AGA (American Gas Association)
approval. There are several factors involved. Vent free gas log
put out a lot of heat. This may mean you cannot run your logs for
long periods due to the heat output. A vented fireplace with vent
free gas logs makes more sense to me. Then, your future options
are endless. You could change to wood (you said you like a real
fire), you may want to go with the very realistic vented gas
logs. If roof venting is not possible, take a look at direct
vent units. The flue gasses go out the back through a horizontal
flue, the combustion air is pulled around this pipe. This makes
the unit sealed from the outdoors. It works very well in tight
houses and is approved in bedrooms in many areas.
Q: If one uses a
vent-free gas log in a fireplace during a power outage in the
winter with the chimney flue closed as recommended, what protects
the household from CO buildup and poisoning?
A:
The
ODS (Oxygen Depletion Devise) does not require power to operate.
It will shut off the gas to the appliance when the oxygen in the
room drops from 20.9% to 18%. This is a long ways from
harmful levels of CO.
Q: Why are vent free
gas logs not allowed in a bedroom? Why? I thought they were
"safe" to use anywhere.
A: We now have a unit that can be installed
in a bedroom. Click here
and look at the G8 series.
The new AGA (American Gas Association) standard allows for a few approved vent
free units to be placed in bedrooms. They must produce less than 10,000
BTUs. Check your local building code.
Q: I am interested in gas logs for my
fireplace, and think I would like the vent free kind to prevent
heat loss up the chimney. I don't understand how they can be
unvented and not present a carbon monoxide problem. Can you clear
this up for me?
A: Vent free gas appliances have an ODS (oxygen
depletion sensor). If the oxygen level drops to a 18% level
(from a normal of 20.9%), the set shuts down. The vent free gas
logs use the same technology as the vent free wall space heaters
that have been around for several years. Do they produce CO
(Carbon Monoxide)? The answer is yes, they produce trace amounts.
Ours sets produce about 9.5 PPM (parts per million). the AGA code
for vent free gas heaters and logs is 20PPM. A gas range is
400PPM. And a cigarette is 800PPM. So yes they do, but not a
harmful level. Note on safety, there has never been a fatality
with a gas appliance due to a faulty ODS and there are more than 10 million
operating in the United States and more than 50 million
in use world wide.
Q: I have heard that vent free gas logs
produce water. Is this true?
A: Vent free gas logs produce one quart of water per
hour on high. You can crack the damper to let it out the chimney.
Most houses like the additional water, but it can become a
problem in very well insulated houses. A de-humidifier will take
care of it (needed less than 1% of the time).
Q: I have heard that a hood must me used on
vent free gas logs. Can you elaborate on the requirements of this
hood, like how big and where to put it?
A: The hood is used if the mantle is too close and
could overheat. Most of the time it is needed if the mantle is
closer than 28" to the firebox opening. It also matters how
far out the mantle extends. The less it extends the closer to the
firebox opening it can be. The hood is about 4" wide and is
available in black or polished brass. The hood goes at the top of
the firebox opening.
Q: I have odors coming from our vent free gas
logs. Each time we've noticed the odor, it has been while paint
has been being applied to the wall. All we can figure is that the
vapors from this stuff interact in some way with the gas
generated fire and that reaction causes a pretty stinky odor. Any
of that sound reasonable?
A: You are correct. The flame processes all impurities
in the air. Other items that smell when
processed: pet hair, carpet fiber, extreme dust, paint, soot
inside firebox, etc.
Q: Is there any maintenance on vent
free gas
logs that needs to be done on a regular basis?
A: Maintenance for the most part can be done yourself.
Just good housekeeping! Take the logs off the burner. Take a
brush (1-2" paint brush with all but 1/2" of the
bristles taped up works good) and clean the burner ports. Clean
the air intake. Clean everywhere that there is dust, pet hair,
carpet fuzz, etc. There should be no soot on the burner at all.
Make sure that nothing has changed with the set. Like extra logs
or pine cones, or the logs positioned wrong. The pilot on a
vent free is part of the ODS assembly. It gets dirty over time. Take a
can of compressed air and blow the dust out. The pilot must be OFF.
The ODS is where the pilot flame comes out. Go to the back of the ODS, you
will see one or two holes, blow the compressed air in there. Then blow
down the barrel of the ODS. Read over the
installation instructions again and be sure everything is
correct. Or call a gas fitter to perform the maintenance and
perform a CO test.
Q: Are vent free gas logs legal in all states?
A: They are not legal in all states. California does not allow them at all. Other states have different
restrictions. Some states do not allow them in commercial
buildings. Nationwide they are not allowed in recreational vehicles. Check with
your local building code official, ask him what restrictions, if
any, are placed on "vent free gas space heaters". Your
answer will be the same whether you are installing : a vent free
wall hung gas space heater, a vent free gas stove, or vent free
gas logs.
Q: I just bought an old house and the
fireplace hadn't been used in years. I called a chimney sweep
(who's also a firefighter) to clean it for me. He said there was
no point because it's an old "Shaker coal firebox" and
the chimney's all full of junk (bird's nests and stuff). So, I
said, "OK, I'll just put in a vent-free decorative gas log
set." He said, "Don't do that. It must be vented."
I said, "V-e-n-t-f-r-e-e. That means, no venting
needed." He said, "I wouldn't do that." I don't
want to kill my family, but I he couldn't explain what the
concern is. I've read all about ODS sensors and stuff. Is there
anything to worry about if I just seal off the fireplace and put
the vent-free unit in? Oh, also, the firefighter was very
concerned about the distance from the firebox to the mantle. It
is very short, say 6-10 inches. Is that a problem? Would a
fireplace hood be appropriate?
A: I sounds as if your chimney sweep was not certified.
He does not appear trained in servicing fireplaces. "Birds
nests and stuff" - The chimney swifts nest is so small it
can fit in the palm of your hand. They pose no fire hazard.
"Stuff", I can only guess! Gas logs, both vented and
vent-free require a working wood burning fireplace. The mantle
could be a problem, even with a hood. If your fireplace is unsafe
for a wood fire, it is unsafe for a gas fire. Call a certified
sweep and let someone qualified and trained inspect your
fireplace.
Q:
Now, explain to me why
on earth you'd need a working fireplace with a vent free system?
Do you see the obvious confusion I have? You guys even sell
mantles that you just push against the wall and then put the logs
in there. I mean, maybe my dumbness is caused by not understanding
what "working" means. Is the fake fireplace setup
called a "working fireplace"?
A: It is confusing. The problem is the building codes
and the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association). There is no
code for a fireplace without a chimney. Therefore the vent-free
gas logs must be put into a vented fireplace, but you can close
the damper. No one is willing to go out on a limb and say that
2", 4", or even 20" of masonry over the top of the
fireplace is safe. How long would a fire have to be going before
heat would transmit, a day, week, month, etc. The AGA (American
Gas Association) and building codes allow a tested and approved
pre-fab firebox to be used, hence the box that can slide back
into a wood wall.
Q: I was considering a gas log for one of my
fireplaces and noticed that they have vent-free models. How well
do these work? To me initially, they seemed kind of dangerous,
but then I thought that gas stoves and ovens work without a vent.
Is there a moisture problem? How is the look compared to a vented
model? Is the amount of heat given off really that great? Can you run the ventless with the flue open at all? Maybe to take
some of the spent air out?
A: Vent free gas logs put out a tremendous amount of
heat, up to 40,000 BTUs into the room. The safety factor has been
addressed by adding an ODS (Oxygen Depletion Device), all sets on
the market have AGA (American Gas Association) approvals.
Moisture can be a problem if you already have a moisture problem.
If you currently have moisture on the inside of you windows, then
you may need a de-humidifier. Vent Free gas logs put out up to
one quart of water per hour. The average house has 5 gallons of
water in the air at all times. Looks, a vented gas log looks much
better, but does not have the heating capability. There is a
trade off to looks verses heat. Heating - yes it is that great
with vent free. 40,000 BTUs is a lot of heat. Yes, we do
recommend opening the damper when you want to see the fire and
not have all the heat. The damper can be left open just a little
and your get most of the heat into the room and let most of the
moisture out of the house. Then, when it is very cold or in a
power outage, close the damper entirely for maximum heat.
Q: I need to find several sets of logs that
will fit in the fireplaces in my house. The house is 106 years
old and three of the fireplaces are the old coal burning ones
that are approximately 12 inches wide and 5 inches deep.
I am looking for unvented gas logs. I am looking for
something to give a little extra heat. The chimneys are not
really usable that is why I want unvented logs.
A: The shallowest vent free I
know of is Peterson's G8 at 9 1/2". Both vented and vent free gas
logs require a working wood burning fireplace. Your fireplace
would have to be brought up to working condition for use with
either style of gas logs.
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www.FireLogs.com
Last modified:
May 14, 2013
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